tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4948885059517209129.post1071129664864659726..comments2023-10-29T08:04:00.488-07:00Comments on Quintessence of Dust: Belief, evolution, evil, and meStephen Mathesonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05057004085073574659noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4948885059517209129.post-90087343517221443682007-11-20T06:13:00.000-07:002007-11-20T06:13:00.000-07:00Steve, thanks for the reply. For me, it all boils ...Steve, thanks for the reply. For me, it all boils down to whether the Bible is the product of people or of God or some combination. Which parts of it are really true, versus metaphorically true versus plainly mistaken? Eventually the lens I needed to preserve the veracity of things like original sin and Jesus' atonement and resurrection got so thick and contorted that it just got too preposterous. Now I think it's all a product of people. Nice and affirming in some parts, but made by people. Thanks again for your honest (and prompt) reply.Paul VanderLeihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02438858912394914415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4948885059517209129.post-77932589275454711972007-11-19T22:05:00.000-07:002007-11-19T22:05:00.000-07:00"The Edge of Evolution nor The God Delusion is a w..."The Edge of Evolution nor The God Delusion is a work of serious scholarship,"<BR/><BR/>Agreed.<BR/><BR/>"Susan posed this evening: where did Jesus get his Y chromosome? Yikes!"<BR/><BR/>God can't *poof* those whenever He wants?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09727474754523394595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4948885059517209129.post-62812801651886233032007-11-19T20:06:00.000-07:002007-11-19T20:06:00.000-07:00Bruce, thanks very much for the link and the encou...Bruce, thanks very much for the link and the encouraging words. And thanks for the excellent comments on the <A HREF="http://sfmatheson.blogspot.com/2007/11/peer-review-of-my-bloglets-see-behe-try.html" REL="nofollow">peer review thread</A>. I'll let them be the last word, while adding that I think you and I are in substantial agreement on the point that matters: neither <I>The Edge of Evolution</I> nor <I>The God Delusion</I> is a work of serious scholarship, as evidenced (at least) by the fact that neither work was peer-reviewed.<BR/><BR/>And John: the "Adam's home address" post might have to wait while I think about a question my wife Susan posed this evening: where did Jesus get his Y chromosome? Yikes! When does spring training start?Stephen Mathesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05057004085073574659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4948885059517209129.post-78057176695851783532007-11-19T20:04:00.000-07:002007-11-19T20:04:00.000-07:00Yo, Stevo. You say: "I conclude that the existenc...Yo, Stevo. You say: "I conclude that the existence of suffering is, in fact, "compatible" with God's character and existence. The alternative, that I would judge God's actions, is an absurdity to me as a believer."<BR/><BR/>Okay, you must forgive me, I'm a philosopher. So, I agree (obviously) that the existence of suffering is compatible w/the existence of God. I'd go so far as to say that there was suffering pre-fall, and that it was a mark of God's love. E.g., had Adam stuck his hand a little too close the fire, I think it would have pained him. That God outfitted creatures like us in worlds like this with pain receptors seems like a loving thing to do, lest we destroy ourselves unwittingly. (And, I'd even say there was emotional pain pre-fall as well. Were Eve next to Adam when he burned his hand I suspect this would have pained her, to see someone she loves suffer.)<BR/><BR/>Of course, not all suffering is a result of creatures constituted as we are functioning the way God intended creatures like us to function. It's stuff like holocausts, rape, babies being born w/o brainstems, etc. that presents us w/a problem. The problem is that God is good, powerful and loves us. Isn't it the case that if one of your children is suffering (say) abuse and you have it w/in your power to prevent it, you would? Now if you (being human and limited in your love, power and goodness) would prevent your children from suffering when you have it w/in your power to do so, how much more would we expect God (who, let us say, is...well...not limited w/respect to love, power and goodness as you are) to prevent holocausts and other apparently pointless or gratuitous instances of suffering. No? <BR/><BR/>So, I think there is a problem; or if not a problem then a puzzle. The puzzle is why does God allow the sorts of ugliness God allows? (Maybe you are more Calvinist than me and believe that God doesn't "allow" such horrible things, they're actually part of his divine plan. According to the Heid. Catch. nothing comes to pass--holocausts included--except from his fatherly hand. I'm inclined to think that sort of thinking is the rotten fruit of a sick tree myself...but I digress...)<BR/><BR/>I think it helps (well, not really) to realize that we are morally justified to let our loved ones suffer even when we have it w/in power to prevent it when either allowing that particular suffering helps to prevent an even greater harm from occuring or there is some great good that can't be accomplished w/o allowing that bit of suffering. I guess I think this is true of God also (and true of us b/c it's true of God). The "problem" is that we have no bloody idea what justifies God in allowing all the apparently pointless suffering God allows. But it seems to me there must be some really great good God can't otherwise accomplish or some really great harm God is preventing. But "that good" or "that evil" is lost on me. Living in a perpetual state of ignorance and unknowing is the problem (or a problem). <BR/><BR/>But this is a science blog, not a theology blog! A real bugaboo if you're a Christian and a scientist is, as you've already identified, the historical narrative of a fall...and the reality of biological/spiritual death. For, as we've all learned, Christus victor, i.e., Christ is victor over sin and death. And if death is right there from the beginning, and not an intruder into God's good creation (as per the biblical narrative) it becomes very difficult to make sense out of the "good news". Right? If biolgical/spiritual death for humans is part of our created nature, then how do we understand the Jesus narrative, the incarnation, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ? What did it accomplish?<BR/><BR/>Alright, nuff said.....<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>KevinKevin Corcoranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17422789329481787215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4948885059517209129.post-48823854085420117132007-11-19T16:26:00.000-07:002007-11-19T16:26:00.000-07:00Beautiful post, Steve. There's a separate post, I ...Beautiful post, Steve. There's a separate post, I think, in your comment about Adam's home address.<BR/><BR/>:)John Farrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18280296574996987228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4948885059517209129.post-82136564384259010382007-11-19T15:56:00.000-07:002007-11-19T15:56:00.000-07:00Sharing this with my readers here:http://www.otmat...Sharing this with my readers here:<BR/><BR/>http://www.otmatheist.com/2007/11/19/stephen-matheson-on-reconciling-belief-with-evolution/Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09727474754523394595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4948885059517209129.post-64501127475254853282007-11-19T15:31:00.000-07:002007-11-19T15:31:00.000-07:00Thanks for sharing this.Thanks for sharing this.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09727474754523394595noreply@blogger.com